It's being drummed down their throats now that, by their peer groups, by, even by people like myself I suppose that have got different views on it, [pause] they're, they're not going to die. 

They seem to… there seems to be this culture of, 'Well if I get it, the drugs are going to be there and it's just like getting diabetes or something.' And I think a lot of medics actually think that that's the way, that's the way it is, like a chronic disease, you know, it's not just a chronic disease, it's a death sentence. There's no two ways about it. 

And the virus is still mutating itself; it's a very clever thing, you can't argue with this damn thing, once you've got it you've got it. But it keeps mutating and keeps changing and keeps, the doctors have difficulty in keeping up with the medication. So I would say to them, you know, 'Don't be that complacent.' But I think if you're going to teach them you've got to be brutally, brutally honest. I used to think when the Sun had the skull and crossbones on the front page how horrific and awful that was. The gay community said it was an affront to them. No it wasn't, it was the truth. I didn't think that at the time, but I do now.