I want to be a service user that does well and when I, the thing is what I draw a lot of inspiration from is the people that have experienced mental health difficulties and have gone on to do well. You know, like if you look back at history, you know, Winston Churchill had mental heath, he had very bad depression, , Abraham Lincoln, one of the greatest presidents of America, he had mental health difficulties, so I think that, you know, mental health difficulties people experience in their life but they can do well, they can make an enormous contribution to society and I tend to look at it in a very positive way because if you started looking at it negatively what, what will people think of you…?

Beethoven, the famous classical, he was, he suffered from mental health, what's that guy's name, the guy who inspired Mahatma Ghandi, Tolstoy, he suffered from mental health, he mentioned in one of his books that he suffered from mental health difficulties. Many of the most significant figures in the 20th century and even before suffered mental health difficulties…

To, that they too can persevere, even though they've got mental health difficulties they can preserve not to feel embarrassed of their mental health difficulties, that to continue with life and to keep on working at what they're doing and not to be taken, not to let anyone pull them down because I think that if you let that happen then what will happen is that you'll go down and it will affect you really badly. But if you persevere and if you ignore those ignorant comments you will persevere in life and I feel that I've persevered. Even though I haven't got a PhD yet I think I've persevered and I've shown people that through my experience I've positively done things constructive in my life that a lot of people can learn from and a lot of people can adopt to their own lifestyle.

So I think that being supported in the community has been beneficial for me and it's also helped, it hasn't tarnished my records because once you're sectioned it actually bars you from taking up certain positions in society because from what I understand, from what I've learnt is that if, once you're sectioned you're not allowed to do voluntary jobs that may require you to work with the public, you may be barred from becoming I don't know a professional in some areas you know, you can't even become an academic, academic if you're sectioned. 

But if you've experienced mental health difficulties but you're not sectioned you can, that's the big difference. And for example there was a famous guy in the United States and I've forgotten his name, John, he was a US professor who suffered mental health difficulties, there was a film done about him called the Beautiful Mind, Professor John Nash. John Nash was a professor who suffered very serious mental health but he was never sectioned. Although the film was a bit exaggerated and it didn't give an accurate depiction of his life he took medication but he was allowed to stay as a professor but what they did say to him was that if, if he was sectioned and then couldn't continue his career and that's what his, what people should differentiate that, people that experience mental health difficulties can go onto become success, successful but people that are sectioned it may be far more difficult for them because they, people that are sectioned it's far more difficult for them to access services and for people to sort of, because of the legal processes in this country it's quite difficult to sort of, I don't now I'm not sure how I can word it but I don't know how to word it so I'm not going to continue on that bit. but I think people that do experience mental health difficulties but are not sectioned do far more better than people that are sectioned. Winston Churchill, as I was saying, he suffered depression he was never sectioned, Abraham Lincoln was never sectioned many of the, you know, 

Beethoven, the famous classical, he, he was, he suffered from mental health, what's that guy's name, the guy who inspired Mahatma Ghandi, Tolstoy, he suffered from mental health, he mentioned in one of his books that he suffered from mental health difficulties. Many of the most significant figures in the 20th century and even before suffered mental health difficulties. So, but the majority of them were not sectioned, I don't think any of them were, they were, they took medication, they suffered from depression but they were never sectioned and they've gone onto to do very well for themselves so I think that I've actually benefited by not being sectioned.

We suffer those worst forms of everything and we have the least number of people. But I think that's, I think we suffer the lowest number but the people that do suffer mental health difficulties within the, within my community don't tend to come forward and, and use mental health services. 

I've met many families who are refusing to allow their children to use, who experience children, their children who experience mental health difficulties to come forward and use mental health because of the family shame. and they, they, a lot of them are quite religious so they think it's, their kids have been possessed and it would be bring shame on their family from their relatives and stuff so they prefer to keep the person, their daughter at home or their son at home and not let them access mental health services. so I think that's a very major stigma that needs to be defeated but I don't think anyone is interested, the government is not interested, I don't think the Department of Health or any government agency is really interested, nobody really cares. But I think that mental health charities have taken a good step in showing look there are problems and we need to highlight them and we need to explore them and discuss them and have a healthy debate. But government who, who hold most of the money who can put thousands into these services to tailor and, to challenge stigma it's not a priority for them so I don't know I think it's going to be very difficult.

Okay and what kind of hallucinations were you having?

Well, well I can't remember must of the experience because of the medication but I used to see dead people , in graves and I used to see people, I used to actually see people who would follow me around the house and follow me when I'm out and about in the community when I'm, wherever I'm, I go they're there and I even, I remember I even recounted or record some of the descriptions of the people that I was seeing to the crisis team that was seeing me so those are some of the experiences that I do remember.

Okay and so what, what do you think would happen if your community found out, can you say a bit more about that?

Well people would look at you in a negative way, probably ridicule you behind your back, probably make, you know, say things that would be very hurtful if you were there. ridicule you and, and it would be frowned upon, people would think oh my God and it would be spread across relatives and people would be like, “He's got mental health difficulties.” And then it may be bad for my own future, for, you know, when I get married and etcetera because, you know, people will say he's got mental health difficulties, would you want to marry into a family that has someone that has a mental health difficulty etcetera. So I think those are the repercussions of if I came out openly about it. so yeah.

Do you think that is something that's particular to, to your community or do you think…?

I think it's particular to certain other communities, BME communities because I think in certain African groups it's a very sensitive issue as well. in certain, you know, in Indian culture it is regarded, in Bengali culture it is regarded as very sensitive, it's frowned upon, in Pakistani culture, many different cultures it's frowned upon. And this is not only talking from me just talking off the top of my head this is from extensive research that has been conducted by universities, that has been conducted by mental health charities, by organisations, by even organisations that tailor their service to ethnic, you know, Indian communities because there are Indian organisations, Indian led organisations that provide services to their own community, mental health services so they have also conducted research and they have found that there is a lot of stigma and a lot, among certain communities in their own. But I think that as people, as an increasing number of people enter the system it will become increasingly accepted by society and that's when it may be but I don't think that will be in my lifetime.

You said when we spoke on the phone that you had had some difficulties doing some voluntary work?

Yeah

Can you tell me a bit about that?

Yeah basically I think that this Disability Discrimination Act is very ineffective, I think it's a complete and utter joke. I only think it protects someone in a wheelchair or someone who has broken their finger or someone who has I don't know I'll be naïve and I'll say someone who , I don't I want to use a very stupid example just to show you how bad the Act is. someone who has probably scratched their finger and is regarded as a disabled person, they would be covered by the Act and they would be given any job. But you see if you've got mental health difficulties this Act, you know, no, I, I want any expert, any doctor, anyone to sit in front of me and tell me how it protects mental health, people that experience mental health difficulties because at the end of the day when you go to an interview you're not protected by the Act like people say because, you know, what the interviewer can say, he can, the interviewer can say after the interview okay we'll be in touch but their feedback could be this person experienced , suffers from mental health difficulties so it may be difficult for them to work with the public. That's subtle discrimination, that's discrimination that people will say actually that's not discrimination that's just , you know, this person suffered from mental health difficulties, this person can't communicate, this person knows nothing etcetera. I think that discrimination is, is so widespread when it comes to mental health there is no Act to protect these, to protect people like myself who suffer from discrimination in terms of, in the context of mental health. The Mental Health Act is flawed, it's, it's a complete joke, it's more it protects people that have, you know, a scratch on their finger or who have, I don't know, who have bump on their, on their knee or something. It doesn't protect mental health patients because it's easy to discriminate against them. If you just say oh they've got mental health they don't understand or, you know, you've had psychological problems in the past, you don't know what you're talking about. Easily discredited and if it were to go to court what would the mental health patients say? “ Sorry I've suffered from mental health difficulty.” “Oh sorry we're discrediting you, you know, you don't know what you're talking about.” And what, added onto that mental health patients can't become jury, sit on the jury, why? Surely if we're protected by the Mental Health, the Disability Discrimination Act surely we should be allowed. We're not allowed to become magistrates, why not, it's a voluntary job, why can't we become magistrates? “Oh because you can't think straight.” 

 but isn't that covered by the Disability Discrimination Act, surely if you discriminate against people based on their difficulties that's wrong.” “Oh no basically you don't know what you're saying.” That's the sort of attitude I've come across and every job that I've gone for, every voluntary position I've been rejected on those grounds. “Oh you haven't thought straight, I think you're, you might, because of your condition you may find it difficult to talk to people or communicate or get your view across.” but the thing is, you know, they've even said , “Oh you're going to be in a place where there's going to be vulnerable people, you pose a threat to them.” That's an assumption but there's no evidence to support that. And the thing is that I've never posed a threat to anyone and I go to a university where nearly every single person is regarded as vulnerable because they're young and number two that a lot of the students at my university come from care homes, they don't have parents, they're regarded as high priority in terms of vulnerability so if I can study in a university with thousands of students like that why can't I spend two hours, only two hours a week working in a hospital? “Basically you've got mental health difficulties and you're not talking straight, but we understand you've got mental health difficulties.” That's the sort of attitude that it, I come across but I call that subtle discrimination. But the thing is that if I were to say excuse me I'm not going to take you because you're a white person or you're a black person that's the, you know, they'll be a, a racist case going on, there'll be legal disputes out there but if you say, “Oh you've got a mental health difficulty,” who's going to recognise that? If you go out to people in society, society is so ignorant society will go, “Oh they didn't deserve the job, they've got a mental health difficulty,” that's how negatively people see, portray mental health and, you know, race discrimination is recognised and there's so much huff puff about it but when it comes to discrimination against mental health patients it's not recognised. That's why when you talk about it people are like, “Huh that's, you know, why you talking about that, that's not even important.” You know why it's not important because it's not recognised. When something is not recognised it's not important. Racism is important because it's something we recognise and people always throw allegations of racism. It's easy to do that, it's easy to say, you know, I'm a black person so I'm a victim of racism. But if you say I'm a mental health patient people say that's even worse because you can't think straight, you don't know what you're talking about etcetera etcetera. So I think that this discrimination, Race Relations Act protects people from race, disability protects people with physical disability, people who may be heart patients or people that have health, a variety of sort of physical health difficulties or someone who has I don't know, has a bruise on their knee or someone who has a scratch on their finger, that may be regarded as a disabled. 

And the thing I remember one day when I went to university I walked up to one of the lecturers and basically it was regarding my travel, to renew my travel and for my, for my Freedom pass and a lot of students have to do that. I showed them my Freedom pass and then they go “How come you've got a Freedom pass?” I say “Because I'm a disabled student,” and they go “Where? I can't see your disability.” And I'm like, “You know, you don't need to know where my disability is,” and they're like,” But when I look at you I don't see you in a wheelchair, I don't see any disability where, where is your disability?” And I really felt shocked, I felt degraded, I thought, you know, who the hell are you to ask me what my disability is, you just, your job is to renew my pass, not to tell me where, and what shocked me is that people are so narrow minded that they choose what is a disability and what is not. For them a disability is someone that needs to be in a wheelchair or someone that needs to, you know, physically needs to be throwing up or whatever. But when you've got mental health difficulties it's like people it's frowned upon, it's like. “Oh you've got mental health difficulty that's bad, you know, you pose a threat, you know, get away from me”. And it really shocks me by the wide, how bad and widespread discrimination is in our society.

So every single day for a very, very long time, I can't even remember how many months, for every single day for several months they'd come to see me at home and I'd tell them this is how I've been feeling. But the thing is that even though I was talking to them my condition was worsening and it was worsening. It came to a period where, you know, they couldn't keep me in the house but what they did do on, on occasions was to put me in the respite unit which we had in the, it was a respite unit that was part of the mental health service, but was in the community and it was a place where people can go and use the services, or use some of the provision that was available such as read books and... And it was away from the outside world, it was, you know, a lot of the time the world is a busy place and people are moving around so it was somewhere where you could go and relax and just have, you know, be with other service users and just enjoy yourself and etcetera. And I spent three or four weeks there and I did that frequently so whenever there was tension in the house, whenever I started shouting at people, in my family, that's when it was decided, you know, you can go there. 

But to be honest, you know, there's a lot of talk that, that mental staff are very sort of, they take it to the extreme that they deliberately section people. To be honest at no point was a section considered in my case. My doctors and my nurses were some of the most compassionate, some of the most warm, some of the most kindest people that I'd ever come across because whenever my, whenever my family brought up sectioning because I, you know, for them it was a new thing that I was unwell and they were quite frightened to have me in the house and stuff, the, the, the doctors were saying no we're not going to because we feel that we can't, we want him to stay in the community because he's young and we have a lot of, we have, we see a lot out there for him because, and we know that we, he has a future in front of him and we want to treat him at home. and the thing is that over time, over the last four or five, three or four years that I've been a patient they've seen me gradually recover in front of them and, and they've never had to section me…

And why do you think you haven't been sectioned?

Why? That's a good question because, number one I think that no young person should be in a hospital, it's a very dangerous place for a child, it can be very frightening for a child. children and young people and adults we develop in two different ways, adults are completely different from young people we have different dependency levels and etcetera so I think on that, because in hospitals it's only those that are eighteen and over mainly or those between thirty and over, the majority of the patients are over twenty five, they're usually in their thirties of forties. You wouldn't put a seventeen year old onto the same ward as a forty year old whose condition is far more worse, who poses a significant threat to all the patients. So it's better that a child is, is around the people that love them most, their family because that's where a child should be. And even like every professional I talk to they always say that a child's home should not be in the hospital it should be in their own home, it should be in the school where they go to school. They shouldn't be living in a hospital that's not the place to be. A child should be in the home, an adult can be in a hospital because an adult poses far more of a risk to, to other, to the public than a child would. A child has, you know, has limited sort of strength when it comes to the, because if you look back at the last ten years you'll see that no young person has ever been jailed, no young person who has, who has experienced mental health difficulties has ever been jailed for a murder or any kind of serious crime where, you know, they've had to be locked away and but the majority of them have been adults sadly and those are usually over thirty years old so in that respect adults are regarded more of a priority than children and young people would be and they are more likely to be treated in their home because they don't pose much threat to their family members etcetera. 

 but there are, yes there are children and young people that are in hospital, there are but that's, you know, isolated cases that are in hospital. The majority are treated at home and, and that's because the crisis team want children to be around their loved ones, around people that can take care of them, that is the family and adults in hospital are usually taken care of by older men who are stronger, who, who, you know, who can deal with them.