But it wasn't that simple really. Then when I left hospital I [pause] he started losing weight and I think it was partly because I was tired and it was difficult having him there and not knowing how much he was drinking because he could be latched on for an hour and still be drinking, and I would just, because I was so tired I would just put him down myself. So I think a part of him losing weight was due to me not feeding him properly, or feeding him enough, and then when the problems started, the sore nipples I could handle that wasn't bad at all.

Did you tell somebody about the sore nipples?

Yeah, I got the cream.

And they checked your positioning?

Yeah they checked everything, they checked the way he was latching on, and what he was doing is not opening his mouth properly when he first latched on he was sucking the tip and then sort of sucking it all in, yeah like that [laughs].

He was slurping the nipple into his mouth…

Yeah.

…rather than opening wide?

But when we got him to open that was fine, then he was doing everything and then.

Did the pain go away when you …?

After a while the pain never actually went away, it, every time I put him to the breast there would be pain for about ten to twenty seconds, maybe, but then it would eventually go away and we'd be okay but there was always a pain there. And then there was a different pain, it was a lot of pain and I just again thought, presumed it was my nipples so I put a lot more cream on and.

How different was that pain? Are you able to distinguish the pain of a latch on from this other pain?

It was a lot sharper; it was really sharp, like glass really.

A burning?

Burning afterwards, when he came off then there was the burning, but when he, when he first went onto the breast it was like he had glass in his mouth and was biting into me.

You poor thing.

It was awful. But I didn't want to give up because I thought, I just didn't want to give up really. And after that we, I told the health visitor, and I carried on with the cream really and they just checked the way he was positioning and the way he was latching on, and told me how to do it, which surprisingly when they were there it did help, but once they were gone it was the same thing again and every time, and then I, it put me off feeding, I didn't want to, I wasn't looking forward to feeding him, sort of dreading feeding time. But then the pain got so bad, got a lot worse that, it started going from the tip of the breast, and from the nipple all the way into my shoulder, into my arms and into my hand, so I was clenching my hand while feeding him and, that was it I thought that was it, "I can't take any more”.

How old was he at this stage?

He was, eight weeks, six weeks maybe.

And what was happening to his weight?

He was putting weight on [laughs] yeah he was still putting weight on but not a lot actually I don't, yeah he was putting weight on quite well actually, initially he lost weight but after that he was putting weight on so I was feeding him but I didn't want to be feeding him [laughs].

But this pain…

The pain.

…was just too much?

Yeah, then what I also felt was that when I was talking to the health visitors about it and I mentioned going on to formula milk because it was just too painful they just, I thought they were ignoring what I was saying and just saying, “Use some cream” or just, you know, watch the way he latches on, I knew all that and I knew, at one point that he was latching on fine and it wasn't the latching on and the cream wasn't doing any good, but it was just this awful pain and I didn't, I had no idea what it was, and then I went to the clinic, had him weighed and everything and then I spoke to the health visitor I said, “I can't do this any more.” And then, “Oh it's fine, it's fine, you know, you'll be okay we'll come and watch you.” And then I just burst into tears, “But nobody's listening to what I'm saying, I can't do this any more it's just too painful”, so she said she'll come round to my house that night and see what I was doing. She came round, she said yeah he's coming on fine, so she told me to put cabbage or something...

Cabbage leaves?

Yeah onto my breasts and to see if that'll cool them down and so what I did was I got the ice pack I think it is called, I'm not sure, put that on and it cooled it down and it helped it a lot but the burning was still there. So every time he would, when he wasn't on the breast it was burning and I put the breast pad back on, the burning went even worse, and then one of the health visitors realised that he had thrush in his mouth and then they realised that from his mouth the thrush went into my breasts, so we were both on antibiotics, they did absolutely nothing for it at all, nothing at all, I think he had about three or four doses of antibiotics.

So can you just tell me what sort of antibiotics, I don't need names and stuff, but was it creams or were you on tablets?

I was on tablets, yeah.

Did you ever put any cream on your breast?

Yes I had a, a cream as well, yeah.

Antibiotic?

Antibiotics which didn't really help, the cream helped cool it down.

And what, what sort of antibiotic was he on?

He was on the liquid one to begin with.

Just drops?

Drops, mm-hm, when they didn't work he had a gel…

Right.

…when that didn't work we tried the liquid again and then twice after that I went and bought the gel myself because I thought the gel worked better than the liquid, but it didn't, it was still there in his mouth, because I could see like a really thick layer of white coating on his tongue. So we had that for the longest time, must've been over a month, and it wasn't really doing any good, I don't think the doctors were too concerned because he was still drinking his milk so they said he must be fine.

But you were in dreadful pain?

Yeah I was in a lot of pain, so I went onto the website and I spoke to somebody about it there, she recommended breast shells, I think they're called.

Oh breast shells?

Yeah.

Can you describe what they look like?

They're supposed to be similar to breast pads, but they're plastic, they have a whole in the middle so nothing touches the nipple and then there's a shell on the outside so your clothes or your bra or anything doesn't touch the nipple either and the milk.

What's the idea of using those?

So that it doesn't really irritate the nipple area because that's what was really hurting so when I put my bra back on or put the breast pad there, it was really still burning up but with those they were really amazing they helped so much.

And the air could circulate…

Yeah.

…around the nipples?

They had holes in them as well so it was, like I said they were a godsend they really were. The pain went away, him latching on and, there was no pain there I could, at that point I was enjoying breastfeeding, I could put my feet up and just have my time with him, but.

How old was he then?

He must've been eight weeks, actually yeah so these, so the thrush he must've got about five weeks, four or five weeks, and then about eight weeks I got the breast pads, sorry the breast shell and, but at that time I was feeding him formula as well to get away from the pain and sort of give me a break in-between.

Footnote: Breast shells are hard plastic hemispheres worn inside the bra to encourage inverted nipples to protrude. Their use is controversial and their effectiveness has not been proven. Flat and inverted nipples are not a barrier to breastfeeding as a baby feeds from the breast not the nipple. Skilled help with correctly positioning and latching the baby may be required.